There will be a special session of the city council tomorrow night at 7:00 PM. Two items of interest under Old Business on the agenda:
1. Ordinance 233 (Giving Rec Board hiring power, with objection power of the council).
2. Light and Power Loan Agreement (Looks as if there is a need to revise the original loan agreement):
Part of the original agreement states:
This agreement is for the purpose of the Lender providing funds to the Borrower to be used for expenses related to the start up of the Oak Park Golf and Recreation golf course and clubhouse for 2008. The total amount of this note is $ 25,000.
Part of the revised agreement states:
This agreement is for the purpose of the Lender providing funds to the Borrower to be used for expenses related to improvements and debt service bond payments for Oak Park and Recreation golf course and clubhouse. The total amount of this note is $ 25,000. The first advance of $15,624.71 will be made in May of 2009 to fund the initial debt service payment on the $ 170,000 general obligation bond used to purchase the Dayton Golf and Country Club property. Further advances may be made in $ 1,000 increments as needed up to a total of $ 25,000.
Here's a problem that I have with this: Taking on debt to pay off debt. I do understand the need to pay off loans on time; however, my contention is that this is not a good business practice.
From the meeting minutes on April 13, 2009 of the Rec Board:
Paid memberships to date: 14 single, 19 family (3 are new members) and 2 high school.
Quick Note:
Under both agreements: Borrower is City of Dayton, DBA Oak Park Golf and Recreation; Lender is Dayton Light and Power.
City Council and Parks and Rec board, please be responsible with our money. I have read time after time that you are willing to throw good money after bad. Be honest, give us a plan, tell it to us, stand by what you say. If you don't you will continue to lose all of our trust. That is one thing that is hard to get back
ReplyDeleteWho is borrowing this money the city or the Parks and Rec Board? Who is in charge of this?
ReplyDeleteI was told in an earlier block it was not the rec board. Is was not in the council minutes tonight that the council voted on this, so who made the decision to ask for this money?
Post 10:05
ReplyDeleteYou've only read on this blog that the council and recs board are willing to throw good money after bad. You haven't heard that from any source that is involved with the golfcourse. Don't believe everything posted on this blog as the truth. A majority of the information posted on here is speculation and hearsay. Find out the facts. Read the Parks & Rec Board minutes in the paper, they tell what is really happening.
I have read the minutes, the light board, the park and recs board and city council. They do not make sense to me. The parks board said they hired two new employees, the council hired three new employees. Blogs are not all fact but they do bring out things that other wise would not be printed in the newspaper. So by you telling me to read the minutes, made since, but the minutes do not add up. So I question what is going on.
ReplyDeleteThe minutes are skewed, the council voted to hire a greenskeeper and two part-time help for the golf course. Two parks and rec people were there to bring these people for approval, what happened to the greenskeeper, is the parks and rec board trying to set the city up for a lawsuit. After the fact, the minutes from the parks and rec seem to skirt the issue of the greenskeeper, are you keeping facts from us? Better get a new secretary. Get the minutes right.
ReplyDeleteOne could argue that the Rec Board already has the hiring power that would be granted them in Ordinance 233 with the greenskeeper debacle.
ReplyDeleteI think that the majority of the people posting on this blog are just looking for something to be wrong with everything that is done in town. Too bad some of you pissed off Al, he probably would have explained things. But, since most of you have said that you think the Parks and Rec Board are crooked, decieving, and untrustworthy, he no longer posts. Nice going.
ReplyDeletePeople are quoting the open meetings law all the time, you should know that if you talk about potnetial employees in an open meeting you could be sued. If you're going to quote, at least know something about what your quoting. Al was right, by the time you're done with your bad mouthing, and back stabbing there won't be a person left that will volunteer for a DAMN thing in this town!
2:48 I don't think most of us feel the parks board are crooks, or the city council. I do think there maybe someone trying to get their own way or not being totally koshier. When you run for office or take on something like the parks and rec board you need to have some thick skin. This is everywhere from our town politics to national politics. Again I will say if you are totally honnest up front things go better. I will say again that I have read all three minutes of the most recent meeting in the Dayton Review and they are conflicting.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry Al does not post any longer but everyone does have freedom of speech. I enjoyed sparing with Al. I don't think asking for information is back stabbing or bad mouthing. It is a search for correct information. If someone disagrees with me I don't consider them bad mouthing. I totally hope that the golf course makes a profit or breaks even. I have never wanted it to fail. If everyone agreed on everything it would be a very boring world. On the local and federal level I will never be anyone's puppet I will have my belief's.
This not just for the 3:15 post, it concerns everyone. Try asking for information without the insinuating remarks and phrases. Just because you don't know the answers, or are questioning the answers, Don't automatically jump to the conclusion that someones up to something, or trying to hide something. Stop being so suspicious of everything and everyone.
ReplyDelete3:15 post; did you read the 12:20 post?
ReplyDeleteI read the 12:20 post and I am wondering about all of this. I see in the parks board minutes ony two employees were hired and in the council meeting minutes it says that three were hired. What happened to the third one?
ReplyDeleteThe parks and rec board didn't have a meeting the other night because enough could not make it. I am just worried that you need to really be very careful with hiring practices or you can be a world of hurt. I am trying to educate. I would also like to know. It's human nature and since we are all at this point supporting the golf course I feel a vested interest.
I heard that the greenskeeper the council voted on was never offered the job.
ReplyDelete1220 "is the parks and rec board trying to set the city up for a lawsuit. "are you keeping facts from us?" "Better get a new secretary."
ReplyDeleteI believe this is the type of comment the 2:48 post is referring to. These are the types of comments why Al stopped posting.
The following quote is from 2:28. "I think that the majority of the people posting on this blog are just looking for something to be wrong with everything that is done in town. Too bad some of you pissed off Al, he probably would have explained things. But, since most of you have said that you think the Parks and Rec Board are crooked, decieving, and untrustworthy, he no longer posts. Nice going."
ReplyDeleteMost of us have not said the park and rec board are crooks. It might have been insuated by someone, but not most of us. Fact is, most of us are questioning things that don't appear kosher sometimes. Yet no one on the "other" side really can answer too many questions. It also seems that when someone questions the way they things are going it really irritates a few bloggers. I wish Al would have stayed and kept us informed. Whoever said you need a thick skin is right. 50% or more will usually disagree with you. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. The mayor nor any council member did not inherit the job, they ran for it. Members of the Park and Rec board were appointed by the Mayor and they agreed to serve. Maybe they didn't realize how uncomfortable it might become. If they don't like it they can quit.
I'm thinking the note passing between the two people in the front of the meeting tonight would fall under the open meeting laws.
ReplyDeleteThere was note passing among the council and or mayor tonight? I must have missed it. I also agree any written note writing does fall under the open meeting laws. It's interesting that someone would pass notes in a council meeting. I know when I have served on several boards that were covered under open meeting laws we could take notes. They were to remain our own and we certainly didn't pass them to others. But these groups were compiled of very prominent leaders of Webster County.
ReplyDeleteContinuation of 11:03 pm post.
ReplyDeleteBut these groups were compiled of very prominent leaders of Webster County and the State of Iowa. We received training from one of the groups and the other we received information and were told to find out and completely understand these laws. We dealt with many employee concerns and very intricate citizen concerns and problems. We also had copies of both agencies policies and procedures and followed them completely. We conducted ourselves with professionalism. By doing this we conqured many very large problems with little disagreements. I am just telling you of my experiences and of the outcomes. This is not an attack on anyone.
One thing is for sure there was one council member who lacked professionalism toinght.
ReplyDeleteCould someone please tell me which one that was?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was just a council member that lacked tonight. But please name who you are refering to then I will tell you I think they were.
ReplyDeleteIt must have been Kevin Benson.
ReplyDeletePeople that are SERVING the community should not have to be thick skined! There's no reason for everyone to be suspicious of everyone and everything. This only happened because a couple of people THINK they know the answer to everything, and they don't know shit. I'm SOOO tired of all this! Let the Parks & Rec Board and City Council do their jobs and stop your damn whining. Wait until there's something to really bitch about!!
ReplyDeleteTo 12:20 AM:
ReplyDeleteRight...
I don't think he was the one passing the notes.
samadamslite
ReplyDeleteYou need to take your blinders off and take a look at the whole picture. Are you not reading all these blogs, or are you blind and just reading what you want to be true? The majority of the blogs on here are so negative it's pitiful. If I were the Parks Board and City Council I'd tell you to shove their jobs where the sun don't shine. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE should have to put up with the shit these people have been putting up with.
1:20 AM: We are bitching about something that is pretty damn important to us: high property taxes. Are you one that does have the answers to everything? The city has borrowed a heckuva alot of money for this golf course. First a $ 170,000 to buy the course, next we're taking a large loan out to pay off the first payment due. I still have not heard what the option for the golf course is if there is another bad year (I do really hope the year is good for the city's sake).
ReplyDelete1:20 AM, if you're in public service I hope you have a thick skin. Politicians get questioned. Decisions get questioned. If you don't believe me, check out the online version of the Des Moines Register. Read any political segment and you will see many, many comments about people expressing their opinions.
you know it's gotten to the point that it's not about the golfcourse any more. It's all about Bashing the people that don't agree with you. If they don't agree with you then they must be trying to hide something. And samadamslite as far as you not thining "most people on here the parks and rec board are crooks". All I have to say to you is BULLSHIT. Go back and read the posts from the beginning, and I mean really read them, then come back and tell us how many didn't say something negitive about the board, or the council.
ReplyDeletepost 1:33
ReplyDeleteYou've already got the course condemmed. There are lots of posts on here that say they hope the course does well, Do you really? If you do how about letting the people that were put in to do the job, do the job. The answers aren't going to just magically appear. You need to give them time to figure ot out.
Well, I guess I have proved my point. I do not have blinders on as one post said. And yes I have read every blog. I was referring to calling the the board crooks and liars. There have not been many people calling them anything. They have been questioning there motives. There is a difference if I or anyone question motives versus calling someone an outright crook. Onto my other point. I have never called anyone a name on here nor have I ever sworn or showed any sign of disrespect. 1:34 and 1:26 both are showing signs of major agitation. But that is your right on here. Why do the pro people get so irritated? The only reason for the negativity is because our taxes are being raised by over $1.00 per thousand just because of the golf course. That is a fact. Also for the fact that it was recommended last year to close the club house for the winter. Did it happen? No. So that does show that someone in charge didn't
ReplyDeletelisten to recommendations given them and lost (according to a paper from City Hall) around $8,000 per month over the winter. That paper is titled Golf Course Financial Information 1-30-09. Have I called anyone a crook? No. The most I have claimed is mismanagement. It isn't rocket science to see it tanked once. We who are not happy about footing our part of this are concerned it will continue down the path it has been on and cost us more money. Whether you believe it or not you do need a thicker skin to serve on a board and it doesn't matter what board or what community. How many times have you heard a Senator or a President, or a Governor criticized for what someone percieves as a stupid act? Or maybe even made a remark yourself? Have you ever said a bad thing about any council person? That goes back to having many disagree with their opinions and having to deal with the disrespect that comes with it. Like I said if they can't take criticism then quit the board they are on. You do have a point about this becoming a bashing session sometimes. Kind of fun though to watch some of you get your hackles up.
I'll bet if you could have read one of the correspondence between the Mayor and the Councilwomen that they were passing, one might have read "Isn't this fun spending the taxpayer's money so we can have OUR golf course."
ReplyDeleteSometimes when we feel guilty about what we are doing, we percieve that other people are calling us crooks, thieves and other despicable names. Are some of the pro golf course people feeling guilty, if not, they should be.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe--can you believe what we have to put up with for this $25
ReplyDeleteYes, there has been negativity throughout this concern with the Golf Course.
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly this started with two very scathing letters to the editor of the Dayton Review, one from a former councilwoman and one from a current councilwoman. Personally this made me look at what was going on and discovered the increase in our property taxes from the Golf Course. If you go back and read these letters you will see that they were attacking of several others on the council.
I have only seen for the majority at the meetings and on this blog, the people arguing and attacking those that don’t want the increased property taxes by cussing and always telling people they are negative and attacking. Yes, this is a big deal to some who really cannot afford to pay higher property taxes. To the person that said wait to complain until something big happens, have you ever had anything big happen to you? Do you know how you would deal with it? I would hope better than some on this blog that feel they have to belittle others opinions and cuss and swear at them. Let me tell you this does not work in the long run.
As far as saying “you don’t support the golf course” what do you want us to do? We are already paying taxes. You took on the job of making the course break even or make money. You need to write the policies, follow the policies and make sure they are enforced. Since I did not accept one of these positions I do not need to do the planning or the decisions, but because our tax payer money is being used for this I do have a right to be informed of what is happening. As far as giving you time. I would get going on this because the golf season is already here.
People in public office do need to have thick skins. Read any newspaper editorial, on line or in black and white and you will see that there is always people giving their opinions.
As far as the mayor and a councilwoman passing notes during the meeting. This lacks professionalism and just follows suit of what has been happening.
So if you choose to tell me I am negative, I want the golf course to fail or you want to cuss at me then go for it because I will now lower myself to that standard. I have maintained professionalism throughout this debate.
8:21 If you went into this for the money then I would give it up.
ReplyDelete8:34 am correction:So if you choose to tell me I am negative, I want the golf course to fail or you want to cuss at me then go for it because I will not lower myself to that standard. I have maintained professionalism throughout this debate.
ReplyDeleteTwenty five dollars, is that what you get paid per meeting, you are spending quite a bit more than that of taxpayer's money on YOUR golf course. Get off your high horse and look at how you are hurting the taxpayers in this town because you want YOUR golf course.
ReplyDeleteTo post 1:20am, I cannot believe that you think this is because of a couple of people that disagree with what is going on. You would be shocked at the amount of people that disagree with what is going on. It is way above the 100's. In visiting with other people that do not live in Dayton, you would be surprised at the amount of people that are making fun of Dayton for keeping the Golf course at what it is costing. I have heard this from many professional people. It's bad when you go to an appointment and get questioned about the golf course and the town you live in. This is just not about the squabbling it is about the lack of common sense and the few people this is helping and the amount it if costing others. I have had two professionals say they will just golf at Gowrie or Fort Dodge this year because of all that is going on. So this is becoming far reaching. Is this what we want to be known for. So if I were you, those that took on this position, I would get to work on getting eveything going, you may need to work harder and quickly, but if it is a cause you really believe in, you will do this. I hope you can succeed but it will take lots of effort, just not blaming others. Good Luck and I do mean this.
ReplyDeleteThe parks board could have had alot more things accomplished on the golfcourse if two members of the city council hadn't been dragging their feet on setting up the board. This board should have been up and running the last of Feb. instead of the first of April. I understand that there are people out there that don't want the city to own the golfcourse, that want to sell it or lease it. But, if it isn't running halfway decent who's going to want it. So the Stand that some took did nothing but delay getting the changes made that were needed to make it profitable. The board is a month behind where they should be because of that delay. It will take a little time to make the changes needed. We need to give them some time to get it done.
ReplyDeleteI understand that it is human nature to want to blame others. There were not enough people to have a meeting last time (I know that people are busy with their own lives) but, if you want to accomplish things you work very hard and diligently and it can be done. I believe there were employees hired and are working. From experience when you have a problem running a business you have to put in many many hours to make it work. I was not reimbursed for most of these hours. If you want something bad enough it can be accomplished. At this point I think the finger pointing needs to be stopped and the real work and planning needs to be done if the golf course is to profitable. It will take time and lots of brainstorming. It is now up to those on the board and other volunteers to get it done. I would rather not see it sold or leased. I do not feel that in can be expected that the whole community get out and save the golf course. Many are unable to and also many feel they are helping by the increase in their property taxes. So those with a complete vested interest need to take a stand. Getting it running well would help but I would like to know what the business plan for this would be. I don't believe we can go another year after this one loosing that large of amount of money.
ReplyDeleteYour points are exactly what I'm talking about. It's going to take some time. People need to understand that. Right now they're blaming the parks board for not getting things done as fast as they think they should. And people are blaming the two council members for putting the board behind schedule. We need to get over our disagreements. The fact is we all want the same thing. We all want the course to make money so taxes won't go up or can come down. We need to work together to make this work, then decide what to do with it. I want to see the course become profitable and for taxes to go down, and budget money go to something else, for the course to stand on it's own, or maybe more. But, it's not going to happen in a month. So everyone needs to give the board a chance to make changes. I agree the finger pointing needs to stop. But, it's going to take more than you and I to make that change.
ReplyDeleteI agree but what I am trying to say that a month won't do it but that if people work diligently and hard this can be accomplished more quickly than most think. It will take many hours. I am just afraid that people will continue to use excuses and not get the work done. I feel it can be accomplished by the end of this golf season and then a decision will have to be made. It will take more than just a few. Possibly people being more open and honnest, and I am not calling names but I have experienced this myself. Things do need to be forthright and not made to appear that things are being hidden. Have people in charge not try sway your feelings by false compliments and excuses. I have seen it all throughout this and I really never would have expected this. It's a very sad situation. I think all involved need to take a close look at themselves and the others around them and sort out the truth and try to come terms with what is going on. Anger, cussing and name calling just does not do it. We need to remember it is human nature when people feel information has been with held from them or not quite given out as the truth or fully, people do start questioning what else is going on.
ReplyDeleteFollowing rules is very important in all of this. What may seem petty to some is very imporant to others. Making fun of not following rules just does not cut it. From experience when you follow the rules and regulations to a T, then people whether they disagree with you or not will get along better.
ReplyDeleteJust a my opinion but it does work. This is an addition to the post 12:58.
It's not the peoples fault, your board had dragged its feet for several weeks on hiring a greenskeeper and not hiring one. Don't blame that on the two council members, from what I have heard they won't accept that.
ReplyDeleteIn Nov. we need a new mayor-protem, I think its time for her to go.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me I will not be voting for Mayor-protem, I also think it's time for her to go. I also wish it was the Mayor's term to be up also but it's not.
ReplyDeleteso 4:26
ReplyDeletefirst of all it's not my board it's OUR board.
Do you honestly think that by voting against setting up a parks board, they did nothing to delay them (the board) getting the job done?
They won't except it? Is that supposed to make me not question their actions?
The mayor is a man.
ReplyDeleteI thought because you think you run everything, it would be your board, my mistake.LOL
ReplyDeleteTaxpayer- read them again, no one called the mayor a woman. They called the mayor-protem a woman. Maybe you need glasses.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies, I read it wrong. In the past there has been confusion on here that the mayor is a woman...but you're right, you wrote mayor-protem.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else question the integrity and honnesty of the Mayor of Dayton. I wonder if he should be leading our city. I think he is destroying our city. What horrific lies and deciet.
ReplyDeleteI have heard the old adage(sp-?), what come around goes around, we can only believe this will happen to the Mayor. " Please God if it be thy will."
ReplyDeleteLies and deciet, that's rich coming from a post on this blog!
ReplyDeleteA blog is made up of agroup of people with opnions. They can share what they want to. You have a choice to read this or not. YES,
ReplyDeleteI believe there are lies and deciet!!!!!!!!!
And I'm saying that this blog is full of lies and deciet.
ReplyDeleteBelieve what you want to believe. I will believe what I believe. Let's see what happens.
ReplyDeleteMayor, you have stooped to a new low tonight.
ReplyDeleteWhat did he do this time?
ReplyDeleteOh don't tell me I have to sleep.
ReplyDeleteIntimidation, intimidation, intimidation. That's all he knows what to do if he doesn't get his own way, I don't think he knows what honesty is.
ReplyDeleteParking tickets during snow removal again?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it has snowed enough lately, I think we have moved on to bigger and better things.
ReplyDeleteLet's try intimidation by several different measures. Retaliation pure and simple.
ReplyDeleteI am going to give my opinion regarding our Mayor. He tries to sweet talk and sway people into believing in his way, I feel at the same time he is turning the screw driver tighter. I would like to tell him that most people can see through this fake caring. It appears to me when this doesn't work he starts with the intimidation and retaliation. A word to the wise this does not normally work and you can really get into trouble by doing this. I know that this may sound hurtful and it may really offend some but this is my opinion. I don't like personally attacking anyone but I feel the need to say this. This behavior is dividing our community like the plague. If he would have handled things better with the council and rec board and the community things would not have gone this far. The tone is set by the leader of the group.
ReplyDelete