To the previous board members in charge of the golf course before the sale to the city (which may include current Rec Board members):
Was there ever an offer from anyone other than the city of Dayton that offered to buy the golf course or anyone other than the city that expressed an interest in buying the golf course?
If so, this is interesting information. As most of us probably would agree, private individuals run businesses better than governments. First, these individuals must run a tight ship in order to recoup on their investments. Second, there would have been no need to take out $170,000 to purchase the golf course. Third, there would not have been a loss of over $100,000 this past year charged to the citizens of Dayton. The best part, we would still have had a golf course! Even better, we would not be subsidizing the golf course's losses with higher taxes!
I'm not sure if this was information that was widely communicated to the people of Dayton when there was a vote to buy the golf course.
To my knowledge there was an offer to buy it. They did present a plan on the golf course if they were allowed to purchase it, but the board at the time rejected it and proceeded with the idea of city ownership. That does beg the question of why would the previous board not want private ownership?
ReplyDeleteI have heard of a person who wanted to puchase the golf course. I was told this by a very, very responsible honest person. They have talked directly with the person who wanted to purchase the golf course. They were even told the name of the person that was contacted by the buyer to run the golf course. To my knowledge I had never heard of this until today and certainly not before the vote by the community to buy the course. There is only one reason I can think of for the previous board, if they were all aware of this offer would be to continue to have control of the course. This is very upsetting news.
ReplyDeleteWe need answers now, have some people deliberatly lied to attain funds from the city to again run a so called city owned -private golf course. There were asked explicitly if there were anyone else interested in the golf course and they said no there were not. This really disturbs me because of the needless expense to the city taxpayers. I would believe that all the information will be brought out even if has to be by subpeona.
ReplyDeleteI wish someone from the State of Iowa could investigate this mess and clear it up once and for all. The more this goes on it not only hurts the golf course or any chance of it doing well, but also divides the town. If indeed there was a buyer, then we the citizens were blatantly lied to. The more this goes on the more I believe that. Bad to say, but it is what it is. Also if there was a buyer and this thing fails, then I think it should just be sold and end the whole matter of city ownership.
ReplyDeleteIf community participation is part of the Parks and Recs agenda, I'm sure questions asked in good faith will be answered in good faith. If community participation is not part of their agenda, I bet they would be happy to add you if your request comes in before the agenda goes out.
ReplyDeleteAn investigation from the State of Iowa might on some levels be welcomed by the council and board. As much as it may answer some people's questions, it may also clear other people's names. I kind of doubt the state would do it. As much as it is the responsibility of a person/group to provide information regarding a vote; as voters it's also our right and responsibility to ask questions before the vote. And I'm sure all of us who work with the state on a day to day basis know, an investigation requested April 2009 would probably happen October 2010!
Samaddamslite said something important, "The more this goes on it not only hurts the golf course or any chance of it doing well, but also divides the town." He's right. Your money, my money all the property owners' money in Dayton is on the line (I'm REALLY unhappy if others use my money irresponsibly). We all need to quit letting our anger blind us. We all need to quit playing the "What if" game; "What if things had been differnt...What if something bad happens in the future." We have to focus on what's happening right now, what we can do to fix it right now, and what can we do now to prevent future problems; regardless if that means the city does or does not own the golf course.
This is a question for any member of the Rec Board and or City Council. Would you or anyone else on the board or council be open to an audit of the city books and a look into the allegations that there was a private buyer for the golf course? Also if there was a buyer for it why were they denied the right to buy it? I truly don't remeber that ever being brought up before the vote. Taxpayer is right that it is our job as voters to get the info we need to make an imformed decision. However if info is withheld or hidden then that becomes moot. I know of no way to get info like the possible buyer unless they publically stated their intention or the the previous board who it was allegedly present to, put it out there.
ReplyDeleteWhat is happening right now, is that citizens of Dayton are mad as heck about being lied to and robbed of our money for such a few, and I will remind you that if this is true some people should step down and let some honest people run this enterprise. Because you have lost our trust, Mayor step up and take some responsibility, don't give us talk like Dayton Taxpayer, we are tired of being treated like children. If what happened is true and we were not told, do the right thing and show us that you are behind the taxpayer that does not want their money to go towards a chosen few, so they can still hsve their private GOLF CLUB. We have been lied to, the city council continues to provide our money for a golf course that we would have surely not voted on, if YOUR chairman of the parks and rec board would have been honest with us and not tried to manipulate statistics in their favor to sell the city a golf course. When we asked Dayton Taxpayer's guestion, we are looking for answers, you are not giving them to us. You need to quit playing your games, this is OUR money, quit stealing it from us. Step up and name a few different park and rec people. GIVE US SOMEONE TO TRUST. Because with this new information, all you have given us is reason to doubt anything that you say.
ReplyDeleteIf I was guily of some thing, I would hope and pray that everyone was as naieve as Dayton Taxpayer, so they wouldn't pose the questions, that he asserted in his post, to me to see if I had committed any crimes. If things would have different, would you have robbed someone? Get real. I hope our city gov't will ask themselves the very questions Taxpayer doesn't seem to want asked. An I hope WE get some very specific answers, we deserve that.
ReplyDeleteWhat did Taxpayer say? I missed something 10:52. I am not being sarcastic, I know I posed a couple of questions. I didn't see that in his. Just asking. Maybe I missed something.
ReplyDeleteSamaddamslite; I think it would be fair for someone to go to the council or board and ask to look at the books. Shouldn't some of that be public record? Lots of public records are posted in newspapers and online. I wonder if there is a way for the city of Dayton to post public records on line.
ReplyDelete1052 post; I'm sorry if you misunderstood I was suggesting people not asking their questions. I think people should go to the meeting, listen, and ask the questions they have at the meeting. Hopefully out of all this mess we will have better participation from the citizens of Dayton in local government. I know I plan to be a more responsible voter in the future.
I have to sign off (which will make 2 people or more happy I think. LOL). Maybe I'll be able to be back later to continue this conversation. I must be a glotton for punishment!
ReplyDeleteIf you go meetings and ask questions, you deserve to be told the truth. I was at meetings about city ownership of golf course and it was asked specifically about any outside people showing any interest in buying golf course, and I have notes of who said what. I am not going to name anyone now, but then gathering was told NO. With said, I will be asking What if, Why were we lied to, What outside State agency can be contacted to help us get the honest answers. I would believe that we deserve to know who has lied to us, who wants to profit from stealing from the taxpayers of Dayton.
ReplyDelete1) Karen Hansen is on the park board and has no golf course interest--so there is one. Rob Stapp, I believe is another.
ReplyDelete2) Lots of things are legal but aren't right. We are getting so wrapped up in open meeting laws that we are forgetting that we are talking about PEOPLE here--and none of them are professional politicians. It has always irritated me when people use the word professional in reference to non-professional situations like "that clerk at Wal-mart was unprofessional." Wal-mart clerks are not professionals and none of the park board members are professional park board members. They are citizens that want to donate their time to help their community. The people we are actively criticizing--on both sides--are our neighbors and coworkers and friends--and it would be much better for everyone if a little common courtesy was remembered.
3) Yes--it is legal to ask for city documents. It is WRONG to do so in such a way it completely snarls the city clerk's office for no reason other than to be a hindrance. Yes--it is legal to drive around town looking for any sort of infraction and then reporting it. Legal, yes--but petty and mean-spirited and WRONG. It is legal to scream at the top of your lungs at a council meeting--but it is wrong. You can break the law unintentionally and mean no harm. You can follow the law with malice. There's a lot of blame to go around here.
Being a professional park board member is way different then acting professional. There maybe a lot of blame to go around here, but I would have liked to know that there was a buyer that was going to buy the golf course for the reason to run the golf course! I agree that this is looking backwards, but some of these people are still in charge that made the decision that the golf course should be bought by the city...
ReplyDeleteI think the issue about the sale of the golf course goes back to the original board that was in charge of the golf course at the time of the sale. Some of those same members are on the current Parks and Rec Board. I'm not sure how many. If this information was with
ReplyDeleteheld I would suggest these people step down from their positions and at this time try to have a board that is unbiased.
As far as looking at the public records, it's pretty hard to get a complete picture by just getting copies or reading copies of records without a complete audit.
I know we have the golf course now, but it is a very important issue if it could have been sold at the time and this information was with held and this option was not made public or considered. I feel this inportant because some of the very same people are on the Parks and Rec Board or have moved on to a new position still involved with running the golf course.
I know I am very upset that if the golf course could have been sold to a private party and was still going to remain a golf course, money to purchase, improve, and lost money would never have happened and our taxes would not have increased. We all would have had the best of both world's a golf course and taxes, the same and possibly some road money.
The issue I have with all of this truth.
There is also a concern about possible retaliation from some who have questioned this or have spoken out about these issues. By no meanings is this ever appropriate.
We are missing the point citizens, we were lied to, and we are being subjected to more and more lies. Shift the blame is a technique that is used to take away from you having to be responsible. Get the people who are lying off the park and rec board, so we can all move forward on a commen goal of lowering our taxes. To 11:29 am. I think you are shifting the blame, only take responsibility for your part, judge yourself honestly.
ReplyDeleteWell said Dayton Tiger. Most of us have said all along it is about honesty not the course itself. If there was a buyer, the people that rejected that option and pushed for city ownership should pay the city back for their negligence. I do believe some of the current board members have no axe to grind one way or the other. Karen Hansen has been named and I think she is a very honest and community minded person. I have known her and her husband for many years. I personally do not know Rod Stapp. But the few that I know that wanted this so bad should really step down and let those with the city in mind run it.
ReplyDeleteWith the last light board loan, of 25,000, the 107,000 that we lost last year, and the 170,000 plus attorney fees, we are over 302,000. In anybody's book that is a big chunk of change. My question was all that taken from us legally?
ReplyDeleteSamAdams: I also agree with you that there are some current parks and rec board members have no axe to grind, I agree Karen, Rod, Nick are very honest. I don't know the coach who is on the board so I can't say anything about him. I cannot remember all who were on the original golf board when it was proposed to the city to purchase but I do know some are still on the current board.
ReplyDeleteThis is 11:29--my part? I have no part. I am just making observations
ReplyDeleteBrad Anderson is the coach. I've only been around him a handful of times but he appears very honest and intelligent. He has a young family in this community and works in this community. This is someone I think everyone can support. The same comments could be made for Karen, Rob and Nick also.
ReplyDeleteTo 11:29
ReplyDeletePolite, courteous, think before you speak, acting professional, using common sense are all great things that we would like to see in everyone's personality traits.
I have used the word professional and I am sorry this has upset you, but I have also heard at the council meeting when the Mayor announced his choices for the board he used the world professionals.
I do take issue with you bringing Walmart employees into this and your statement of them acting non professional. I feel any job that a person has is important, whether it is your mind considered "Professional" This world is made up by many people, each and every job is important as we all use these different services and what would we do without them.
The issue at hand is the city owns the golf course now, it could have been sold to a private buyer, the taxes would not have had to go up and all of the issues since probably would not have happened.
12:30 Thank you telling about Brad Anderson, I do not know him, and I appreciate your input.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we all need to get to know the Parks and Rec board members better. There are some I do not know at all or very limitedly know so I would appreciate it too. If we knew a little bit about their background and personal interest in serving on the board it may lead to more comfort and trust. This may help them feel like they are not under the microscope all the time and help them be more productive.
ReplyDeleteI would say most of us are in agreement that the aforementioned individuals are upstanding members of the rec board. It does seem like some of the holdovers have some questions to answer as why this information about another possible buyer was never brought to the attention of us. Did these members feel this information was not important to mention?
ReplyDeleteWe need a fresh start, so we can gain some much needed trust. I would like to ask this question. Do you as citizens of Dayton feel that your trust has been violated by some of the old golf course board that is on the parks and rec board?
ReplyDeleteYes, I feel my trust has been violated.
ReplyDeleteViolated, Hell I feel raped...
ReplyDelete"Was there ever an offer from anyone other than the city of Dayton that offered to buy the golf course or anyone other than the city that expressed an interest in buying the golf course?
ReplyDeleteIf so, this is interesting information."
The "If so" is grabbing my attention. Is this a hypothetical question and speculation or is there factual evidence to back it up. I would need to know the answer to this question first before I can answer if I feel my trust has been violated.
Must sign off again (cheers from the audiance, I know). I'll be back though.
Yes Dayton Taxpayer, I feel I have been told factual information. Someone whom I feel is very responsible and reliable talked with the potential buyer, this person told this to another person who called the buyer themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe buyer even told them of who by name they had contacted to possibly run the course if it was purchased. I have personally talked with the person and yes this is true.
Cheers? Not in the least. Nice to have you here. Anyway, I know who the person was that wanted to buy it. They also presented a plan to the golf board at that time. It was rejected. I am not going to name them, but there are a few others who have since found this out. I realize this looks like the old state a fact that can't be proven, but as yet I don't think this person wants their name out there. Suffice it say it came from some very reputable people who do not want to be named. I know this opens me up to the usual blame or name game. But I will not break my promise to keep the names quiet. I do think it will all come out in due time, though.
ReplyDeleteI will not name the names on this blog, but I did ask those involved if it was o.k. for me to share the information and they said yes.
ReplyDeleteOne of the reason's I would not share names now or at any point is because of the recent
retaliations that been happening. Now I realize I was also one that was retaliated on. It's became insane how far some things can go.
Dayton Taxpayer, I also agree with Samadam's I appreciate you participation on this blog.
ReplyDeleteSam and Dayton Tiger, I commend you on sticking to your word, it instills trust in you, too bad others have not pick up on this.
ReplyDeleteAs with the two people above, I also appreciate your input Taxpayer.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I feel much more welcome today than other times I have posted.
ReplyDeleteI know of another community where their city council meetings are live televised on their local channel. Like channel 2 is a local station of sorts on LVCTA. That might be an interesting concept if it's possible. LVCTA might not be able or willing to do it. I know in this community their other subcommittees like parks and rec board, library boards, etc are not televised.
I'll probably get shot for mentioning it (sorry). There are so many households where both parents work, the kids have activities, the parents have their own community obligations; its too dificult to make meetings. Then something someone thought might have happened...turns into it did happen...turns into a spin off of that. It's nice to see things for yourself. Adds to trust and accountability.
Taxpayer: That would be an interesting concept, some of language would need to be cleaned up since there could be children watching.
ReplyDeleteIt would stop somewhat of the rumor mill.
I do want to confirm again that the intent to purchase the golf course is not a rumor.
Thanks I wonder if LVCTA would do this for the council and the parks and rec board.
I do have to tell you one thing though; that community is in litigation right now for something that was said about an employee during a meeting. The employee has already been paid out a very large sum of money and more litigation is possible. I can't tell you where because it would give away my identity but it is true. Essentially someone made an OOOPS and it cost big money. If the city is sued, we all lose money.
ReplyDeleteIt is an interesting concept, but it would have to be really well thought through before it is suggested. Bad ramifications if errors are made.
Also, I wouldn't suggest televising anything but the city council meetings. The Parks and Rec board can give updates at the council meetings that are televised. The Parks and Rec meetings are more "working meetings". Although they are open meetings, its in our interest for them to have a little wiggle worm to speak freely and work things through without scrutinizing every word.
It's a thought. It might help. But please lets not run wild with it yet unless its really thought through and found to be a win - win for everyone. Dayton doesn't want to be paying out money in a lawsuit and on TV 5 - 8 - 13 for a screw up on live TV.
Oops,but open meetings and public records laws have given direction on any recording devices, both audio and visual. They meaning the attorny general, wrote that they can't be prohibited from an open meeting, and I think anyone blocked from taping, either visual or audio at the parks and rec would be in violation of open meetings and public record laws.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice if the Parks and Recs board could get the golf course running more smoothly so they can also focus on our other parks. I think they were put in place to oversee all parks.
ReplyDeleteStratford has a really nice shelter with picnic tables under a roof and then an enclosed kitchen. Wouldn't that be nice in Dayton? Also, does the city own the campground? If so, that might be another place to look to see if they can attract more people to town. It would be nice if they can focus on all the parks too, not just the golf course.
Nice talking to you today. Life calls so I must sign off again. Maybe I'll be back tonight if I'm able.
Don't spin your wheels too hard for the rest of the afternoon! Tomorrows another day with another subject to discuss. It's not all going to get solved online today.
Take care.
I agree that it would be great if the Parks and rec board could work on the other parks also. The city does own the campground at least the one that is at Oak Park. I think there could be improvements there also.
ReplyDeleteBut I think it would be good if we could get the problems with the golf course taken care of.
I know that meetings can be video taped or recorded. Since these are already recorded by the city clerk and by several who attend meetings.
I know that mistakes can be made and can cost communities lots of money. I just hope that these mistakes haven't already been made.
Because of these oopes that is why I have been so concerned with following open meeting laws. I am also concerned with some of the language that is used at the meetings. I am also very concerned about some of the happenings such as the retaliations and other things that could put us in the news/ and paying out money. I hope that dammage hasn't already been done. I think that if I was running the meetings I would keep it very professsional, follow the rules and not step out of bounds in anyway.
I'm going to break the "rules" of the group and actually identify myself. This is Kendra and a couple of things might benefit from clarification.
ReplyDelete1) the city is NOT under litigation because of comments about employees and did NOT pay out a settlement to employees. I think I'd know if we did. I don't always pay the best attention at meetings, but I would have noticed this. I think I know the incident that sparked this rumor--but there was no litigation or settlement.
2) There is currently a group out there headed by Joni Reiling that is actively working on the city park at the school. It is a three stage plan with stage one happening as soon as the well gets done. Funding has already been secured for stage one and it cost the taxpayers absolutely nothing.
I enjoy reading this occasionally--just don't like it when it gets personal. Like "the council is full of liars"--that kind of smarts! "the council is only wanting their own private golf club" Hmm--I don't golf (too uncoordinated) "they ran for council,they need to have thick skins"--I didn't run and am serving because I feel I was "called" to do so--that's how I was brought up. I am certainly not in it for power and it hurts when people say I am. I am getting an ulcer from these bi-weekly meetings. I just wish we could disagree without all the nastiness.
NOW--here I've gone and put myself out there. Please be kind.
Sorry Kendra, I must have been unclear. I was talking about another community under litigation. I looked back and I wrote "that" community not "this" community. Dayton is not under any litigation and I'm sorry if anyone misunderstood that. I've misread some things from one time to another too.
ReplyDeleteLook on MSN. The US called a public health state of emergency. Let's hope we won't have to deal with it. It does go to show that something much more serious could happen that it would be imparitive we work together. As far as we know, it will really happen.
Swine Flu? Do you guys remember getting shots for that in like 4th grade? Scarry stuff.
ReplyDeleteI remember the swine flu vaccine. It was scary. The reason they declared in a public state of emergency is so that the states can get more of the tamiflu antivirus.
ReplyDeleteBack to the issue at hand. I don't feel all of the council or all of the rec board are liars or are only in it for power. But appears some are.
There was an offer to buy the golf course by a private buyer and if this would have been considered and done, then there would not have been all the problems that there are now.
There has been retaliations going on and I also know this as fact. It is a fact we are going to have to face and it should be stopped. I do not feel this is from the council as a whole and am not holding all of the council responsible. But leadership does have the trickle down effect.
Alot of people posted on here they feel like they have been retalitated against for speaking up. I'm not going to get involved in that one way or the other because I do not have any information or proof one way or the other. I learned a long time ago not to get involved in all things that don't directly involve me.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, I hope people will become more active in local government. I too at different times in my life have felt uncomfortable about speaking out because it might cast me in a bad light to others or put me in a position someone could retaliate against me.
We have some really special rights being Americans. It has taken some really brave people to speak out to move us forward, even when it's uncomfortable or there may be reprecussions. Without the bravery and guts of these people, where would we be? We're a country of rebels so to speak. We're also a county that can pull together and protect it's own to achieve accomplishments no other country has seen.
Please go to your council members personally or go to the meetings and speak your concerns. We really need to prove we can pull together as a community in the face of adversity to make Dayton a great place to live.
Wow! I was really much to serious and philisophical. I'll get off my soap box...promise. I needed to get this off my chest.
Kendra, Could you let us know your thoughts about the new revelations about people not letting citizens know about possible sale of golf course to private owner, this could have possibly let the city have more money in city coffers now, and it maight not have caused the turmoil we have now. Thank you for responding.
ReplyDeletewell,I immediately called "people that know" and an offer was never made. Apparently, the person was interested in buying the course AT FORECLOSURE and not before--or at least that is the impression I am getting from the phone call I made. No formal offer and other plans had to looked into.
ReplyDeleteKendra, I have read recently in the Dayton Review that you have writers block from time to time.
ReplyDeleteYou could interview a different city council member including the mayor and a different P&R board member each week. Nothing too controvercial or putting them on the spot. Nothing that would take up more than just a few minutes of their time. Just a little bio on them and their vision for Dayton and or the Dayton Parks?
That would take up 13 weeks worth of articles.
Kendra, I am sorry to disagree with you but this offer was not at foreclsure. I also receieved this information from "people in the know".
ReplyDeleteI want to correct my spelling (foreclosure)
ReplyDeleteSo do think it might have been advantages for the city to know this information so it could maybe procured a better deal on the golf course. As I have read, the city was not made aware of this knowledge by golf board members trying to get the city to purchase course. Thank you for taking time to respond.
ReplyDeleteGood ideas for columns: I could start with MY vision which is "get through this term without an ulcer and without becoming a major alcoholic." LOL Actually I think the ideas will start to flow again when ISU closes for the semester--which is next week. Thanks for the suggestion.
ReplyDeleteBut--honestly--whether my "source" is right and there was no concrete offer or your "source" is right and there was--it is over now. NO ONE on the board at the end of the golf board's tenure is on the park and rec board now--so none of them were there when this offer was or wasn't made.
I'm all about ALL our parks--including the one across the street from my house. I'm also all about tax relief because I was notified this morning my job at ISU is not going to be renewed due to budget cuts--the recession hit me this morning and how! HOWEVER--I need concrete proposals to consider/vote on and not just accusations. Let's be positive and move forward.
Kendra, I'm very sorry to hear about your job. Layoffs are even tougher when you have little one's to care for.
ReplyDelete~This too shall pass~
The layoffs, the golf course and city council issues, all of it. You stay positive too :)
You are mistaken Kendra, one board member for sure. The chairman of our parks and rec was the vice president of board that proposed sale to city.
ReplyDelete